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Apple Keynote. Have I missed something?

For me, someone born in the mid-60s, it is just astounding technology. As a child I expected a future of jet packs, space travel, flying cars, cures for cancer etc etc. None of that happened, but we got a device that makes a Star Trek communicator look like a total piece of crap in comparison. The iPhone, and even more so in its shiny new buttonless X guise, represents that future. A computer far more powerful than any mainframe even the US military had in the 1980s that operates via touch, voice control, has GPS, a pro-grade digicam, arcade-quality gaming built in along with the ability to hold about a month's worth of lossless music and even has a telephone built in. Add to that the best mobile apps on the planet for whatever your interests, so you can use it from anything from an analogue synthesiser (a proper Moog, Korg etc) to a heart monitor. Come on, it is bloody amazing! Alternatively you could buy a fancy interconnect for a hi-fi system for the money!

PS Sure, as ever, there are other smartphones that do some of this stuff, some may do some of it better, and did some of it last year, but what Apple do time and again is to do it better and as a cohesive designed whole. If the best Android phone is £7-800 or so I would so happily pay the extra £200!

Agreed again - and exactly the point.

When one looks at the technology you get for the price paid, compared to say a two channel stereo amplifier, or a moving coil/cone loudspeaker in a MDF box, there really is no comparison.

It's almost unbelievable that they can build it for the price it is - I can think of a two channel stereo amplifier I've heard costing A$220,000.00 - by comparison to that, the iPhone is the starship Enterprise and unbelievable value for money in terms of sheer technology.

Cheers
 
Jonboi,

Why compare an iPhone to something ridiculously expensive and overpriced? Everything -- apart from Veblen goods -- is a bargain when measured against Veblen goods.

Joe
 
The other side to my earlier post is that an expensive phone, like a cheap phone, has a built-in-obsolescence that no credible audio kit has. Even though I can afford modern cutting edge audio technology I choose to use tried and tested classic kit that has a lifespan that is, with a little servicing, over half a century and counting, and often increases as an investment like a good artwork. Even the best smartphone is toast in five years, such is the nature of the beast. I have no issue with putting a grand or more on the table for something I really want, but with something as transient as smartphone technology it equates to a very high total cost of ownership. I love the idea of the iPhone X, and I do want one, but I will hang fire for another year or two until it is at the iPhone 8 price point and any bugs are ironed out. I will get my money's worth out of my 128GB 6S in the meantime...
 
Frankie Boyle
12 September at 20:08 ·

Set your Apple Face ID to your comeface, so that if someone mugs you for your phone they at least have to **** you off first
 
Well, I don't actually own a smartphone, just the most basic Nokia mobile that I bought about five years ago, but there's a price hierarchy in everything, including bicycles. A quick Google shows mountain bikes range from about £750 to over £6,000. Is there a 'right' price to pay? In that price range, is the cheapest too cheap, or the most expensive too expensive?

Hi Joe, My issue. When the first iPhone hit the market ten years ago (I was selling them then!) it was circa £300 to buy sim free for the 8GB device IIRC.

Development costs and design of the first one were huge - I believe Apple spent over $2.5 billion on development costs.

Add UK inflation to the cost of the phone and we get no more than £400.

£1000? It's morally the equivalent of the smack dealer hanging around on the street corner in deprived areas to me. It's not selling a product on value but on what they think they can get away with. Do they really need to declare of profit over £50 billion per annum when people are starving and homeless?
 
The original UK iPhone cost £269 on a £35 monthly o2 contract. Of course the newer iPhones are much more advanced than the original model and technology development and research costs can be very high. On the other side, manufacturing costs have probably fallen. The problem Apple has is maintaining the desire for a large proportion of its iPhone users to feel the need to upgrade on a regular basis. The law of diminishing returns kicks in at certain points like it did with the PC and Laptop markets. If the kit can do the tasks needed of it, is there a need to upgrade? The smartphone market is reaching this point. Lots of people, including myself are prepared to hold on to smartphones longer than 12-24 months which has been the market norm. This is starting to hurt manufacturers, retailers and the networks. It will be interesting to see how the market goes as UK import costs for new phones are rising - will we see a price war to fight for market share or will phone and network costs rise? The technology will play a part too. The other thing is that Apples market share is low compared to Android - 12.9 v 86.2% (2016). That might be okay if Apple is taking the lions share at the premium end of the market. However, it now looks like it wants to have a larger share of the mid-to-lower end markets, but using it's older iPhone designs within that segment.
 
We may think that the mobile phone market is about to become mature. But waiting around in the wings are the flexible displays, or folding displays, or roll up types - all to give a much much larger screen, but keep it in you pocket. Mobile games play will be transformed, but us old farts will wonder what the fuss is about!
 
The original UK iPhone cost £269 on a £35 monthly o2 contract. Of course the newer iPhones are much more advanced than the original model and technology development and research costs can be very high. On the other side, manufacturing costs have probably fallen. The problem Apple has is maintaining the desire for a large proportion of its iPhone users to feel the need to upgrade on a regular basis. The law of diminishing returns kicks in at certain points like it did with the PC and Laptop markets. If the kit can do the tasks needed of it, is there a need to upgrade? The smartphone market is reaching this point. Lots of people, including myself are prepared to hold on to smartphones longer than 12-24 months which has been the market norm. This is starting to hurt manufacturers, retailers and the networks. It will be interesting to see how the market goes as UK import costs for new phones are rising - will we see a price war to fight for market share or will phone and network costs rise? The technology will play a part too. The other thing is that Apples market share is low compared to Android - 12.9 v 86.2% (2016). That might be okay if Apple is taking the lions share at the premium end of the market. However, it now looks like it wants to have a larger share of the mid-to-lower end markets, but using it's older iPhone designs within that segment.

Very fair post Stuart.

Over the same period a Macbook has of course also developed capability as well as coming packaged with considerable software enhancements.

It's nearly 30% less expensive than it was in 2007.

Profiteering is likely to put my generation off upgrading iPhones as you mention.
 
£1000? It's morally the equivalent of the smack dealer hanging around on the street corner in deprived areas to me. It's not selling a product on value but on what they think they can get away with. Do they really need to declare of profit over £50 billion per annum when people are starving and homeless?

With your interest in bikes then....how about these for rip off prices?

http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide...13-most-expensive-production-road-bikes-world

When I built my state of the art (then!) road racer (custom made hand built frame and the absolute best of everything) it cost me about £50! Even with many years of UK inflation, that works out to about £900 today.
 
I'm prepared to bet the iPhone X sells in bucket-loads and they won't be able to make them fast enough! The market will support very high price luxury items, and as audiophiles we know this rather too well! Apple are just positioning themselves as the Rolex, Leica, Conrad Johnson or whatever of the smartphone market. For a huge number of people across the planet £1k is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. Just astounding technology, functionality and build quality for a fraction of a months wage. I don't see what the issue is really and the more I think about it the more I'm tempted to grab one (and the big one as I need music storage space). To be honest the main thing holding me back is the old IT Manager mindset of never trusting anything with a zero in the point revision, I'll likely let others bug test it and find the weaknesses and then grab the next version!
 
Hi Joe, My issue. When the first iPhone hit the market ten years ago (I was selling them then!) it was circa £300 to buy sim free for the 8GB device IIRC.

Development costs and design of the first one were huge - I believe Apple spent over $2.5 billion on development costs.

Add UK inflation to the cost of the phone and we get no more than £400.

£1000? It's morally the equivalent of the smack dealer hanging around on the street corner in deprived areas to me. It's not selling a product on value but on what they think they can get away with. Do they really need to declare of profit over £50 billion per annum when people are starving and homeless?

So what would be a 'fair' price for a mountain bike?
 
Define "Mountain Bike" Joe.

It's a bit like asking a fair price for "a car" these days :)
 
Over the same period a Macbook has of course also developed capability as well as coming packaged with considerable software enhancements.

It's nearly 30% less expensive than it was in 2007.

Profiteering is likely to put my generation off upgrading iPhones as you mention.

I'd argue the reverse. The current MacBook/MacBook Pro are eye-wateringly expensive if you need a serious amount of onboard storage, e.g. 1TB or more. It is why I am slumming it with a 2012 pre-Retina model. I want my music collection with me, not in the cloud, not on a NAS at home and not on an external USB drive.

PS I find it rather odd that someone with a stereo that cost more than a luxury family car is arguing about £1k for a state of the art smartphone!
 
£1000 makes no sense for a phone but it does make more sense when you think about the central role they play in the working and social lives of the sort of people who will buy one. For a lot of people who are not programmers, video editors, etc. these phones effectively replace the need for a laptop.

I think it's less convincing if you still need a laptop for proper work. And it's noticeable that a lot of Apple owners in my office have been scoffing at the price and have no interest in buying one because phones are great and everything but the new one doesn't do much more for them over their existing 5, 6 or 7 given the marginal cost.

My FB feed is though full of friends of nieces and nephews and the like who are probably going to buy one on some sort of credit/high price contract.
 
I'm not in the industry anymore Matthew but there don't appear to be many non smart phones around these days.
 


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