advertisement


Van attack at Finsbury park mosque.

Swapping a keyboard for a spade is not a good idea in 2017 - generally speaking.

****ing amusing though. It's like watching someone "come out" on a public forum (but without any of the bravery or admiration).
 
Ragaman said:
I think this goes to show how little religion plays a part in British society, Muslim is the second largest religion in the UK with just 4% of the whole population, I think this goes some way to explaining the problem.
Non religious people in the UK have problems with any religion,
recently here on pfm the Jehovah's witness religion came in for the usual battering without an eyelid being blinked, you have to ask, if this had been aimed at the Muslim religion, how the thread would have panned out, I imagine, considering the amount of venom spouted, it would have closed down sharpish but as it was this particular religion it was fine to carry on regardless,
we either respect all religions for what they are & what they represent to the individual & give due care to how we portray them or we ban all religious posts as it seems quite biased as far as I can see. Either we agree any religion is fare game or none is.

I would like someone who battered the religion a few short days ago (there were plenty, including mods) to state how they feel this is ok yet feel it not ok to spout discontent for the Muslim or any other religion.
Why should one set of personal beliefs take preference over another.

I personally have no religious beliefs, I have in my time mocked religious beliefs, including the DUP quite recently, but having time to reflect, it is their right to believe what they wish as is any religion.

The Jehovah posts show how hate can fester & spread quite rapidly in online forums, some say it in jest, some don't, it matters not.
Click to expand...
That's a keen observation Mr raga, the thing is criticise Islam and suddenly you're 'Islamophobic'! Does that make some of us 'Christianphobes too then?
 
lost audiophile said:
Since when has a hate crime become a terror attack? The results are equally appalling but am I the only one who finds this revision of terrorism problematic?
Click to expand...

When it involves trying to kill and injure people in numbers. The fact that he only killed one person is irrelevant, he went in to do as much damage as he could. How is that any different from the Westminster or London Bridge attacks?
 
Mikeandvan said:
That's a keen observation Mr raga, the thing is criticise Islam and suddenly you're 'Islamophobic'! Does that make some of us 'Christianphobes too then?
Click to expand...
Sort of my point Mike :)

I just don't see why it's ok to mock one set of religious beliefs over another, where is the line drawn, surely not how many hold such beliefs or how they fare on the far fetched scale. I do feel that if someone disagrees with Islam they will be seen as racist, which is obviously ludicrous & why other, "non respected" religions are easier to put down.

I have none, i prefer the Einstein route but i draw the line at some here mocking a religion as daft then slating someone else for doing the same about a different belief system.

It should all be dealt with equally or not at all, i just gives some the platform to come over all high & mighty to those who hold a different view.

I can state i disagree with all religion, including Islam.
I feel the world would be a better place without it, it causes way more problems than it solves but if someone wants to believe in something & it brings them comfort, it's fine.
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
When it involves trying to kill and injure people in numbers. The fact that he only killed one person is irrelevant, he went in to do as much damage as he could. How is that any different from the Westminster or London Bridge attacks?
Click to expand...

First, please don't take this personally. I just quoted you as an example of what many people seem to be saying. Second, I never said nor implied that the number of casualties made a difference.

There are fairly clear definitions of what constitutes terrorism, not to mention a whole body of academic literature, that usually revolves around a political cause. This guy was at best a misguided idiot and at worst probably a xenophobic, racist killer. But just because he used a van to carry this out does not make him a terrorist. I could be wrong and we could find out he has an arsenal of weapons and a systematic plan to terrorise the Muslim community. But somehow I doubt he's that clever.
 
maxflinn said:
Douglas Murray is an apologist and advocate for Neocon-led Western intervention/terrorism in the Middle East and rabid Islamophobe.

You're as likely to be radicalised reading his 'work' as you are reading something written by Abu Hamza.

Of course the BBC has him on every other day, but then that organisation is fast becoming the media wing of Neoconservative terror.
Click to expand...

Don't be silly, I don't know everything about Murray, but he is an intelligent commentator, unlike Mr hook handed ogre.
 
Ragaman said:
Sort of my point Mike :)
I do feel that if someone disagrees with Islam they will be seen as racist, which is obviously ludicrous & why other, "non respected" religions are easier to put down.
.
Click to expand...

Have you ever questioned jews or israel, you do know what you'll be accused of, i'm guessing you know what. That's not even 'putting them down' only questioning.

Care to know why Katie Hopkins was sacked at LBC?

She made an alleged 'anti-semetic' remark yet everyone know's she's well known for anti-islamic/islamphonic views and tweets.

I totally agree with you all faiths should be treated equally.
 
rally said:
Care to know why Katie Hopkins was sacked at LBC?
She made an alleged 'anti-semetic' remark yet everyone know's she's well known for anti-islamic/islamphonic views and tweets.
Click to expand...

iiuc she called for 'a final solution' on twitter after the Manchester Arena bomb.
The tweet was swiftly deleted, but even LBC couldn't ignore it.
 
Ragaman said:
I would like someone who battered the religion a few short days ago (there were plenty, including mods) to state how they feel this is ok yet feel it not ok to spout discontent for the Muslim or any other religion.
Why should one set of personal beliefs take preference over another.

I personally have no religious beliefs, I have in my time mocked religious beliefs, including the DUP quite recently, but having time to reflect, it is their right to believe what they wish as is any religion.

The Jehovah posts show how hate can fester & spread quite rapidly in online forums, some say it in jest, some don't, it matters not.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll engage with this. First off I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any gods, ghosts, afterlife or any other such thing. I am 100% a spiritual/mystical free-zone. I do however live in an area with a very high Muslim population and I recognise exactly the scapegoating and demonisation they face as I've seen it first hand. As such I keep that bullshit right off this, my site, my place of work. I am also aware that pfm has a very high Asian/Muslim userbase and I seek to cause no offence to these people, my friends.

The JW thing struck me very much as lightweight lighthearted fun. Just ways of gently taking the mick a bit if they continue to knock at your door uninvited. A whole different thing to Muslims who as part of their day to day life get spat on, have bottles and stones lobbed at them, have train-loads of unemployable knuckle-dragging EDL shit turning up to trash their business etc and are pretty much treated the way the Jewish population of Germany was way back in the early '30s when fascism was taking a foothold.

PS To put it another way if anyone here can "see that the EDL/BNP/Britain First/NF have a point" they can f*** right off. pfm really is not for them. I will waste neither my time or money promoting these views. Please believe me on this, I have a site with many, many thousands of members, I'll happily ditch hundreds to get this ideology right off here (I'd actually only have to ditch maybe three, non of which are even customers!). This is an anti-fascist/anti-racist site!
 
lost audiophile said:
First, please don't take this personally. I just quoted you as an example of what many people seem to be saying. Second, I never said nor implied that the number of casualties made a difference.

There are fairly clear definitions of what constitutes terrorism, not to mention a whole body of academic literature, that usually revolves around a political cause. This guy was at best a misguided idiot and at worst probably a xenophobic, racist killer. But just because he used a van to carry this out does not make him a terrorist. I could be wrong and we could find out he has an arsenal of weapons and a systematic plan to terrorise the Muslim community. But somehow I doubt he's that clever.
Click to expand...

No offence taken. I just feel this guy and his actions fit the same profile as the nut jobs who carried out the Westminster and London Bridge attacks. They are indeed all guilty of hate crimes though.
 
Tony L said:
PS To put it another way if anyone here can "see that the EDL/BNP/Britain First/NF have a point" they can f*** right off. pfm really is not for them. I will waste neither my time or money promoting these views. Please believe me on this, I have a site with many, many thousands of members, I'll happily ditch hundreds to get this ideology right off here (I'd actually only have to ditch maybe three, non of which are even customers!). This is an anti-fascist/anti-racist site!
Click to expand...

th



My fiancee is Muslim - when I see the faces of many life long friends when I explain that to them it makes me realise just what an issue much of middle class Britain has and how much effort it will take to enlighten them.
 
merlin said:
My fiancee is Muslim - when I see the faces of many life long friends when I explain that to them it makes me realise just what an issue much of middle class Britain has and how much effort it will take to enlighten them.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know if you will be converting in order to get married?
 
Tony L said:
Ok, I'll engage with this. First off I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any gods, ghosts, afterlife or any other such thing. I am 100% a spiritual/mystical free-zone. I do however live in an area with a very high Muslim population and I recognise exactly the scapegoating and demonisation they face as I've seen it first hand. As such I keep that bullshit right off this, my site, my place of work. I am also aware that pfm has a very high Asian/Muslim userbase and I seek to cause no offence to these people, my friends.

The JW thing struck me very much as lightweight lighthearted fun. Just ways of gently taking the mick a bit if they continue to knock at your door uninvited. A whole different thing to Muslims who as part of their day to day life get spat on, have bottles and stones lobbed at them, have train-loads of unemployable knuckle-dragging EDL shit turning up to trash their business etc and are pretty much treated the way the Jewish population of Germany was way back in the early '30s when fascism was taking a foothold.

PS To put it another way if anyone here can "see that the EDL/BNP/Britain First/NF have a point" they can f*** right off. pfm really is not for them. I will waste neither my time or money promoting these views. Please believe me on this, I have a site with many, many thousands of members, I'll happily ditch hundreds to get this ideology right off here (I'd actually only have to ditch maybe three, non of which are even customers!). This is an anti-fascist/anti-racist site!
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you have typed there Tony but I think it would be wrong to ban the likes of mikeandvan and the small minority like him for holding the views which they do. To my mind, it is much better to debate with these people and try and win them round with reasoned argument. Thankfully, it is not as though this site is overrun with this type of poster and I suspect it never will be. What you don't want is a site completely made up of those who all share the same political outlook and viewpoint. You just end up with a dull echo chamber. Although I disagree with him, in many ways I respect him for coming on here and expressing his thoughts and opinions with honesty. Intelligent, reasoned debate should negate the need for banning and deletion of posts/threads in my opinion.
 
marvin1882 said:
I agree with much of what you have typed there Tony but I think it would be wrong to ban the likes of mikeandvan and the small minority like him for holding the views which they do. To my mind, it is much better to debate with them and try and win them round with reasoned argument. Thankfully, it is not as though this site is overrun with this type of poster. What you don't want is a site completely made up of those who all share the same political outlook and viewpoint. You just end up with a dull echo chamber.
Click to expand...

pfm has been an echo chamber-free success without accepting hateful sentiment for a while.
There are plenty of other places to hang out and debate with these types, if that's your bag.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top