advertisement


Are Koetsus worth it?

A very good explanation, Frank. Thank you.

I do wonder though, if some of the colouration (however derived) that all cartridges display is part of their charm. Not hifi in the strictest sense, but pleasing to the ear, nonetheless.

I am absolutely sure you are right Paul.
Two things stick in my mind from my time at Garrard, one was picking up buses driving by 4 floors down and across the car park on the cartridge output if the deck wasn't isolated down to a very low frequency, the other was the amount of extra but different colouration there was added by arms and cartridges.
We only looked at the phono stage output btw, any shortcoming not effecting that was considered unimportant.
 
I am absolutely sure you are right Paul.
Two things stick in my mind from my time at Garrard, one was picking up buses driving by 4 floors down and across the car park on the cartridge output if the deck wasn't isolated down to a very low frequency, the other was the amount of extra but different colouration there was added by arms and cartridges.
We only looked at the phono stage output btw, any shortcoming not effecting that was considered unimportant.

Buses eh? You wait for hours and three come at once ;)

Still enjoying those lovely speakers, Frank?
 
Here is a neat little graph:

12498171283_1507aba6b3.jpg


Mass is the combined arm/cart/bolts, cu the cart compliance. You want it to be in the blue zone.

PS By saying that things will often still work ok slightly outside, e.g. I'm currently running an Ortofon 540/II in a non-Improved 3009 and that works out at 12g (arm mass) +6g cart weight +screws (very short ones so I'll not count them), so an effective mass of just over 18g and a cart compliance of 30cu (which is very high). That puts the resonance a bit too low at about 7-8Hz which is possibly a bit close to record warps, though it seems to track superbly. I suspect I'd have trouble if I had a floating subchassis deck though (it is a Thorens TD-124).

That's really useful, thanks. So if the SME V's effective mass (as SME quote) is about 10g, plus the roughly 10g of, say, the cart bolts plus a Koetsu Rosewood Signature which runs at 10-12cu, it's just about inside the blue zone...but not very ideally.
 
As I have mentioned a few times on here the Shilabe needs a high mass tonearm of about 30grams to work properly. Anything less and your are wasting your time.

have you tested it in 64S vs 64x?

i found 64x adequate for use with the mentioned MC pickups but i can imagine 64S would be better. it would be good to let us know what 30g+ tonearms you had in mind? i fail to trace anything heavier than 64S at 30g with a stock shell. FWIW i hate to add a weight via shell, you are certainly affecting a dynamic balance of the system which may become closer to a hammer (light handle, heavy top) than to a relatively evenly weight distributed combo.
 
That's really useful, thanks. So if the SME V's effective mass (as SME quote) is about 10g, plus the roughly 10g of, say, the cart bolts plus a Koetsu Rosewood Signature which runs at 10-12cu, it's just about inside the blue zone...but not very ideally.

To my eyes that puts it right in the middle of the blue where you want it; 20g mass, 10-12cu = around 10Hz.
 
To my eyes that puts it right in the middle of the blue where you want it; 20g mass, 10-12cu = around 10Hz.

Quite right, my eyes are not what they were...

At any rate, as a coda to this thread, I might get a dem of an Urushi when my SME is back from its service...
 
Tim, the e.m. of the Five is 11g, not 10, not that this affects too much. I've had both a Black Goldline and my current Urushi in a Five. In fact, the Vermillion was run in on the Five. I was perfectly happy, but there's no doubt that it sounded much better when I got 12" arms (with greater e.m.), though admittedly the deck changed from suspended to mass deck as well, muddying the comparative waters a little.
 
My curiosity piqued by this thread I read the bumph on the web-site.
Fascinating.
The coil design does indeed address one of the major weaknesses of conventional cartridges, and he uses a thin-walled tube for a cantilever formed such that the contact point of the stylus is near the centerline of the cantilever minimising torsional input.
As a piece of engineering these cartridges make more sense than almost any I have seen.
I find myself genuinely excited to read information about a cartridge that isn't the pure BS we get so often nowadays.
Shouldn't have read it, I really don't need another cartridge...
 
Guess what just arrived?

Yes a Miyajima Madake. Should make for some fun over the weekend.

Should go pretty well in my Ikeda IT345-CR1 just as the Shilabe and Kansui did before it.

I'm bamboo zled ! £1500 above the Shilabe (or is it Kansui?). Rarefied territory, Tom. I'd be interested, as I'm sure others will be, in the improvements wrought by this cantilever. What is the e.m. of your Ikeda arm?
 
I had a Madake here last year and directly compared it to an Ortofon A95 and a Transfiguration Proteus. I produced a tape at 15ips on my Studer (with levels matched :rolleyes: ) playing 3 identical tracks with each cartridge so you can here all three cartridge together in quick succession without stopping to change cartridges.
I have also done blind listening tests with customers to see which one is preferred without them knowing what cartridge is being played. A very interesting test this one because it threw most people and had some very interesting an uncanny outcomes...
 
As it's a moving coil story can we please move on to the next chapter, Graham?. Presumably your stage etc. but which deck and arm.......and outcome?
 
As it's a moving coil story can we please move on to the next chapter, Graham?. Presumably your stage etc. but which deck and arm.......and outcome?

Happy to discuss over the phone but I don't have time to document this at present. Happy to demo the tape, or people can demo the Proteus here which sort of gives a bit of the game away...

Tests were done on a TW Raven Limited with TW 10.5 tonearm. The Tape was made on a Studer 810 with ATR mag tape.
 
Graham, If you were using a 14g arm, doesn't that deny a level playing field, considering what you said earlier in this thread about the neccessity of using a heavy arm with a Miyajima?
 
This caveat did cross my mind, but I don't know the arm requirements of the Proteus and A90. I have read, though of the dubious compatibility of Koetsus (generally? no idea.) and the TW arm.

How is it possible to have a completely 'balanced' comparison between disparate pieces of the whole, each ideally requiring slightly different parameters? G.T.'s comparison, quite possibly unbiased beforehand, is about as good as one can get, surely, without a massive investment in time and equipment. I wonder how many dealers would offer that, even with a sale at the end?

Having heard a Shilabe and owning a Proteus (both into my amplification etc.), the difference between presentations might well evince an immediate preference, but not necessarily a longer term appreciation.
 
As it's a moving coil story can we please move on....

Been some decades since I had the orginal Grado Signature, a true contender to MC cartridges of that vintage.

The best cartridge I've ever heard was propably a Decca

Above cartridges along with other good non MC design should hopefully get deserved attention

The EMT, Linn Krystal and Apheta/Aphelion don't get much mention either.

Would love to hear how many % wise, that preferred the AT95 in Grahams tape contest.
 


advertisement


Back
Top