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MQA arrives on Tidal

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I'm feeling a bit thick at the moment. Would it be worth having a poll on the subject, breaking it into the following type of categories:

- I've tried MQA using the Tidal software decoding and my view on the differences against 16bit are: Worse, Same, Slightly better, Definitely better
- I've tried MQA using hardware decoding, and my view on the differences against 16bit are: Worse, Same, Slightly better, Definitely better
- I've yet to try MQA, but I'm interested
- I just fancy throwing stones from the other side of the fence at this new fangled voodoo
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
I'm feeling a bit thick at the moment. Would it be worth having a poll on the subject, breaking it into the following type of categories:

- I've tried MQA using the Tidal software decoding and my view on the differences against 16bit are: Worse, Same, Slightly better, Definitely better
- I've tried MQA using hardware decoding, and my view on the differences against 16bit are: Worse, Same, Slightly better, Definitely better
- I've yet to try MQA, but I'm interested
- I just fancy throwing stones from the other side of the fence at this new fangled voodoo
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That could be interesting.
 
radamel said:
That could be interesting.
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Well lets face it, is this thread really now talking about persons experiences? Doesn't appear so. Just another near on slanging match.

Me, I'd like to hear feedback from people who've tried it. Right now, they're probably taking one look at the thread and how it's gone and have decided to avoid the "noise".

I'll voice the opinion voiced earlier that the "debate" about MQA's technical merits would be best served by a separate thread, leaving this one to summarise views on albums.
 
vln said:
As I understand it - please correct me if I have got it wrong:

The software-based MQA decoding we got via the Tidal Desktop app upgrade is for the D/A conversion in the computer, i.e. for users who plug their headphones directly into the headphone socket of their laptops/computers (probably the majority of users). This may explain why it only works for the desktop app but not for the tablet or mobile phone version of the app, as the decoding process seems to be computationally intensive, as some people have reported.

The signal coming out your USB socket still has MQA encoded (unless you explicitly switch it off in the app), and then it's up to the DAC if it can decode the MQA part. Even if you have a non-MQA DAC, it would still profit from the MQA process applied to compensate for any artefacts (temporal blurring, as MQA calls it....
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that was what I assumed to be the case from the MQA literature but some people say that they are able to get the mqa unpacked using an exclusive mode setting. Certainly I have heard this from Jem using the Mac version, but it has not worked on my windows machine.
This would presumably be what some streamer or software player manufacturers will be able to do with non-mqa dacs- i.e. The initial 24/48 to unpacked from 15/44 plus a load of noise to something like 16/96. This is stage 1 with the remaining stages available only with an mqa dac.

No doubt all will become clearer in the fullness of time
 
Ok, so Ive downloaded the desktop app and can play what I assume are master quality music on my Windows 7 laptop, but it sounds just ok as its only laptop speakers and it says master quality in the bottom right hand corner.
I have connected tha laptop via usb to my 2qute dac and it plays, but am I still listening to mqa music as the light colour on the dac is unchanged?
It sounds very good anyway.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
I'm feeling a bit thick at the moment. Would it be worth having a poll on the subject, breaking it into the following type of categories:
Click to expand...

What method do we use to try MQA vs 16-bit?

It's a similar issue to SACD, it's not trivial to make a meaningful comparison.

Tim
 
Mand
Does it say master on the tidal playback screen?
Have you selected your dac from the Tidal settings screen, have you then selected exclusive mode and left MQA pass through unchecked?
 
In settings I've have master quality selected but there is no choice to choose anything else's like my dac and no mqa pass through option.
 
mand said:
Ok, so Ive downloaded the desktop app and can play what I assume are master quality music on my Windows 7 laptop, but it sounds just ok as its only laptop speakers and it says master quality in the bottom right hand corner.
I have connected tha laptop via usb to my 2qute dac and it plays, but am I still listening to mqa music as the light colour on the dac is unchanged?
It sounds very good anyway.
Click to expand...

You need to go into the app's settings, click on the streaming tab, and select exclusive mode and MQA pass through for the playback device. Apologies if you've already sone that.
 
mand said:
In settings I've have master quality selected but there is no choice to choose anything else's like my dac and no mqa pass through option.
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In settings>streaming hover the mouse to the right of the audio output device. You'll see a cog icon, click on that and you'll see the options.

Not intuitive at all.
 
Hi Jim,

That raises the question of using a computer that has an spdif output. Does *that* get MQA decoded? - either 'partially' or 'fully'?
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I'm pretty sure that that isn't the case for reasons of protecting MQA's IP, because it would presumably allow to reverse engineer the filter. It's what tripped up Auralic when they first started to look into MQA, and MQA very quickly pulled to plug when they realised what kind of product the Aries is (no analog outputs):

http://support.auralic.com/hc/en-us/articles/222512427-Will-MQA-support-comes-to-AURALiC-device-

(the Auralic Aries can be considered a computer with an SPDIF output)

Auralic has confirmed to me that the Aries puts out the digital signal as is (as long as its 64bit software volume control is disabled), with the MQA part still encoded, ready to be decoded by an MQA capable DAC, so I'm also sure it doesn't interfere with the folding/origami & bitstacking aspects.

3) Trying to fiddle with the data / system to 'correct' in some way for your DAC. (But not, for some odd reason, your loudspeakers IIUC. Which would probably have far more effect on the wideband timing group delays, etc.)
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I agree - but it's a separate problem, and it would involve measuring all the speakers people use. Granted, Devialet are already measuring speakers for their SAM program, and they have already processed an impressive number of speakers out there, so it's not impossible from an organizational POV. However in a perfect world, you would have your speakers *and* your ADC/DAC process compensated for.

And my guess is that the end-listener's speakers and listening room setup will usually have *much* more effect on ultrasonic range temporal coherence than any decent modern ADC or DAC.
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I agree - though Bob Stuart has at some point said that digital room correction is not mutually exclusive to MQA, but I assume it needs to be realised on MQA's terms. Not sure how many manufacturers will agree to that. Also, as soon as a digital room correction algorithm (with MQA's blessing) is manipulating the MQA signal in order to adapt it to the specifics of a user's room, can it then still be called "authenticated"?

I'm still reserving judgement until I receive my Mytek in a couple of days, but yes, something is definitely happening here.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Well lets face it, is this thread really now talking about persons experiences? Doesn't appear so. Just another near on slanging match.

Me, I'd like to hear feedback from people who've tried it. Right now, they're probably taking one look at the thread and how it's gone and have decided to avoid the "noise".
Click to expand...

If that's your view, maybe it would be an idea to start a separate "subjective opinions about MQA on Tidal" thread, instead of trying to change an existing discussion to your taste?
 
I think this guy on the meridian forums nailed it

The other thing is that the limited number of MQA albums on Tidal means that I've been going back and listening to old albums, which is not something I'd normally do terribly much of - I'm much more a new music kind of a guy. And part of the reason is that old albums don't always sound that flash in SQ terms ... so the MQA versions I've been listening to are just revelations.

There's a well known effect that whatever you listened to in your late teens is pretty much the defining music of your life. And part of the reason (in my case at least) is that the songs and the bands that you first heard during those impressionable years had this vivid quality to them, which - if you're into a bit of hifi - seems to get paler and paler as the decades roll by. The sheer impact of hearing Phil Collins drum his way through In The Air Tonight for the first time is never quite matched again; particularly as newer albums come out and the quality of the recording and the mastering is just so much better than anything that could be achieved in the 80s. Even when I've bought the the later hi-res versions of older albums, it was really for nostalgia's sake as they never quite recaptured the visceral quality of those first analogue listenings, IMHO.

MQA is completely different. Leaving aside the technological machinations, those old albums now have a life and an energy that instantly dragged me back to the first moment the stylus hit the vinyl and some new band exploded into my teenaged bedroom. So I've been working my way through the (limited) back catalogue on Tidal and the effect is the same, no matter how much of a muddy mess the original album was - I'm looking at you, Yessongs.

Over the last few decades of enjoying hifi, I'd come to expect that old albums are a bit like a slices of life preserved in amber - interesting, but no longer engaging in the way they were when they were new and fresh. MQA has utterly changed my view ... I don't know how it's done (alright, I kinda have an idea from tipping my toes in the shallow end of the technical descriptions), but I find the effect transformative - MQA can take a recording and turn it back into music. It's a truly stunning achievement, and Bob and team should be justly proud that they've not only improved the way new music is listened to, they've also found a way of exhuming and reinvigorating the past in a way that I didn't believe possible without a time machine.

So I'm completely convinced by the promises made about MQA. Someone should go grab Bob out of his office and stand him against the wall so we can all take turns throwing praise and accolades at the man.
 
It's perfectly reasonable for Bob Stuart to say that speaker and room correction are "not mutually exclusive to MQA". However my comment was regarding my feeling that the *absense* of arranging for room / speaker time alignment would probably mean their behaviour swamps the effects of time-alignment of the ADC and DAC.

And FWIW I'm happy to praise both Bob Stuart and his co-workers for a lot of the good work they've done on digital audio over the years. The Meridian DACs I've used have delivered lovely results.

But I'd like to get some detailed and testable answers to the technical questions / issues I - and others - have been raising so we can assess what's really going on. Comments like the above "not mutually exclusive" one don't really deal with them. And the secret sauce means it isn't easy to find out.
 
I have an old Dell laptop installed with Windows Vista Home Basic. Will masters work with it? I'm guessing not.
 
Listening to Blue by Joni Mitchell, an album I've played a heck of a lot over the years. I don't think I've ever heard it sound this good. Maybe I'm imagining it, but it sounds so 'right', with beautiful vocal quality.
 
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