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Flatpopely NAIM based ABX test - 24th August

Gaius said:
Well Andrew is being very accommodating here but he is a good egg.

Am I understanding this correctly?

You are going to discover whether a Naim Nait is indistinguishable from a Nac 72/Hi/135s.

Or not.
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That's it.

I really don't want to be critical because it's great of Andrew to set this up, but I'm concerned about using Kans, they're just so limited.

Note: I am a previous owner of Kans and Sara's.
 
Well done for this. I strongly suggest a switch for the speakers as the position of your arm or whatever is likely to give away which amp they are connected to.

Waaay too far from me unfortunately.
 
Brian said:
That's it.

I really don't want to be critical because it's great of Andrew to set this up, but I'm concerned about using Kans, they're just so limited.

Note: I am a previous owner of Kans and Sara's.
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OK then, my understanding was clear.

Lucky for me, whilst I do enjoy catching up with Andrew now and then, I won't be persuaded to make the drive, me being just outside that London Town.

I kinda know the result already and will be happy to take wagers.

Kans will be just fine, I use them and when set up right they tell you everything, particularly in this showdown, you'll need to know.

I wish a fun day for all but also when the results are established that some of the vitriol and rhetoric floated round these parts will cease.

It's a smart move to execute just that.
 
I look forward to hearing about the outcome. Out of interest, should these two amplifiers actually be indistinguishable from one another? Would they both be considered 'transparent' by the definition that Rob, Serge, Ethan Winer etc would stipulate?
 
Gaius said:
Kans will be just fine, I use them and when set up right they tell you everything, particularly in this showdown, you'll need to know.

I wish a fun day for all but also when the results are established that some of the vitriol and rhetoric floated round these parts will cease.

It's a smart move to execute just that.
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Very good of Andrew to do this.
FWIW I think Kans are just fine since some tests on the original Nait show just a little low bass roll off compared to the bigger Naims. The Kan having no real low bass should partly negate this. Just make sure it doesn't get near clipping with just 12 watts on hand.

This is the other end of the country to me but if I can sort things I'd be interested in attending. Don't put me on the list yet though, as if someone who hasn't done this sort of thing wants to attend they should get priority.
 
Robert said:
Very good of Andrew to do this.
FWIW I think Kans are just fine since some tests on the original Nait show just a little low bass roll off compared to the bigger Naims. The Kan having no real low bass should partly negate this. Just make sure it doesn't get near clipping with just 12 watts on hand.

This is the other end of the country to me but if I can sort things I'd be interested in attending. Don't put me on the list yet though, as if someone who hasn't done this sort of thing wants to attend they should get priority.
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Especially so if using the turntable as any excess VLF will just suck up amplifier power and make clipping much more likely.

S.
 
Tenson said:
Well done for this. I strongly suggest a switch for the speakers as the position of your arm or whatever is likely to give away which amp they are connected to.

Waaay too far from me unfortunately.
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Why's that? He lives near York. It's not that far from anywhere. I used to live near there and I know how long it takes to get around.
 
Brian said:
I reckon I know as well but I still don't like the idea of Kans. Some people just don't like them.
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Whether they are liked or not, they are common to both amplifiers, so don't present an inconsistency. I don't like Kans, in fact, I think they're possibly the worse loudspeaker I've ever heard that warrants the name HiFi, but the test isn't to enjoy the sounds, it's to find out if the two amplifiers are distinguishable in a blind test. The Kan is perfectly suitable for that task.

Having said that, once the test is over, I'd use them as boat anchors.......

S.
 
It is a very real world test. Whatever happens it will be rubbished. However for most of us punters it is bloody great and will be a great help. Flat, my guess is you will come under pressure from various folk not to do this. If so just fold it if it gets too hard and we will understand.
 
Haven't read the build up for this but my guess is they will sound very close if not the same.

Be interesting to see the old b&c naim v Quad 44/405.

Interested to hear the outcome.
 
pure sound said:
I look forward to hearing about the outcome. Out of interest, should these two amplifiers actually be indistinguishable from one another? Would they both be considered 'transparent' by the definition that Rob, Serge, Ethan Winer etc would stipulate?
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Not with any degree of certainty in my case since as mentioned the Nait doesn't quite meet a transparent spec and the test loudspeaker has some clear limitations. Among other things the Mk1 Nait's HF distortion measures higher than 0.1%

Then there is the Kan issue.
I think it's good enough to tell if these Naim amps sound 'so close as doesn't matter' in this type of system or if there is a huge gap between them as Naim would state.
Linn and Naim have both maintained that the Kan sounds far better driven by a bigger, more expensive Naim. I think this is what we we testing here, is it true and by how much. For me the beauty of this test is it should reveal the size of the gulf between these amplifiers - large or small and that's a very useful exercise.

Looking a bit wider, and with you in mind Guy ;) , I wouldn't consider any Naim as transparent to a high sensitivity horn lover since the circuit is too noisy.
But into sub 90dbw loudspeakers, ok to make generalisations I think.

As Andrew stated, no test proves anything, it just throws it's evidence onto the pile for others to consider and 'weight' accordingly.

Of course if everything on the day sounds identical, some will say 'see ABX is useless :p ' while if it reveals clear differences, well.....

Whatever, I think stop picking and let Andrew do it.
These things are difficult enough without having endless objections.
 
In my opinion, Andrew has proposed a perfectly reasonable test. Those who feel otherwise should feel free to arrange their own event. Although different speakers and amps could be used they will not be in this case because he doesn't own any others.
 
YNWOAN said:
In my opinion, Andrew has proposed a perfectly reasonable test. Those who feel otherwise should feel free to arrange their own event. Although different speakers and amps could be used they will not be in this case because he doesn't own any others.
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Quite.

Plus the Kan is a natural established partner for both amplifiers.
 
YNWOAN said:
In my opinion, Andrew has proposed a perfectly reasonable test. Although different speakers and amps could be used they will not be in this case because he doesn't own any others.
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I agree, as I indicated in the comment I made and indicated in the comments made by others. I assume there is some freedom here to remark on the test?

I removed the bit that wasn't necessary.
 
YNWOAN said:
In my opinion, Andrew has proposed a perfectly reasonable test. Those who feel otherwise should feel free to arrange their own event. Although different speakers and amps could be used they will not be in this case because he doesn't own any others.
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I agree. Provided the set-up is done correctly, level matching and avoiding clipping, and the test is genuinely blind, then I think the test will be fair. I do have a reservation about using a turntable due to possible VLF effects, but even that might give an interesting result when compared with the same test using CD.

Good to see such a test being done.

S
 
sergeauckland said:
I agree. Provided the set-up is done correctly, level matching and avoiding clipping, and the test is genuinely blind, then I think the test will be fair. I do have a reservation about using a turntable due to possible VLF effects, but even that might give an interesting result when compared with the same test using CD.

Good to see such a test being done.

S
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Thanks Serge, I will do my upmost to make it truly blind and objective.

It's a real world system ABX though, not something in a lab!

I might even take the test at the end........
 
Brian said:
I assume there is some freedom here to remark on the test?
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Of course - in the same way that I am free to comment.

My comment was not aimed at you specifically Brian, or at anyone in particular. However, if anyone is unhappy with the equipment, or procedure, Andrew is proposing why should they not set up their own event?
 
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