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Vinyl trend causes discord

Nic Robinson said:
Chris, Yours and my experiences are opposite. I suffer from none of the phenomena listed above in almost all of my collection. Why would I want to listen to a medium like the one you describe? It’s just not the case, and as for user-unfriendly, eh?
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You must have some kind of linear tracking arm, Nic. And I'm sorry, even with very good vinyl kit (I have an LP12/Ittok/Troika, no longer bleeding edge, but above average), you will be aware of the typical vinyl background noise in quiet passages. That's what sold the CD to me in the first place. No matter how far advanced the volume control was, the music just started out of a completely silent background, and when you got to a quiet bit, that same vinyl background hiss was absent. Try listening to the Teldec 1812 on vinyl. In the very quiet opening section, The background surface noise almost dominates. And, on the same record, getting the cannons to track cleanly is well nigh impossible. On the CD version, they just blow your speakers up!

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
Changing records or swapping sides every 20 minutes. Horribly damage prone software. Child unfriendly. Ugly, space consuming software.
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But that's another part of the attraction. I've got 4 kids and never had a side fingermarked, let alone scratched. Ever. Ugly, space consuming software? Well, each to his own.
 
Mescalito said:
You must have some kind of linear tracking arm, Nic. And I'm sorry, even with very good vinyl kit (I have an LP12/Ittok/Troika, no longer bleeding edge, but above average), you will be aware of the typical vinyl background noise in quiet passages. That's what sold the CD to me in the first place. No matter how far advanced the volume control was, the music just started out of a completely silent background, and when you got to a quiet bit, that same vinyl background hiss was absent. Try listening to the Teldec 1812 on vinyl. In the very quiet opening section, The background surface noise almost dominates. And, on the same record, getting the cannons to track cleanly is well nigh impossible. On the CD version, they just blow your speakers up!

Chris
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Jees! You guys talk as if vinyl fans had never heard a CD! No not linear tracking, just an Ittok. However I banished end of side distortion when I got rid of the LP12.

Nobody is questioning the advantages of digital. It's just that, on balance, vinyl sounds better to me. That's all. I use and enjoy both.
 
The thing Michael Fremer nails in his response is that all the bleating, whinging and whining is coming from those trying to convince either us, or more likely themselves, that there is no place for vinyl and other physical media. Meanwhile I can be found quietly enjoying a wonderful record collection that is increasing in value almost by the day and playing it on some beautiful replay kit that is doing exactly the same. I don't need to convince anyone of anything as I am perfectly confident and secure in my choices. Live and let live!
 
Mescalito said:
Because vinyl is inferior, that's why. Because despite the "resurgence", most new stuff isn't released on vinyl anymore. Because it is by far and away the most user-unfriendly and fragile medium. Because of the surface noise. Because of the clicks & pops. Because of tracking & end-of-side distortion.

What's not to like?

Chris
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Absolute nonsense.

I go into Fopp, on Brown Street, Manchester, which is full of kids and every time I go in there is even more vinyl of all types of music and if they haven't got it you can order it. They fly it over from the States.

The albums can cost up to £20 but most cost less.

In queuing on Record day, the queue was aged from 16 to 66.
 
Mescalito said:
Because vinyl is inferior, that's why. Because despite the "resurgence", most new stuff isn't released on vinyl anymore. Because it is by far and away the most user-unfriendly and fragile medium. Because of the surface noise. Because of the clicks & pops. Because of tracking & end-of-side distortion.

What's not to like?

Chris
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My vinyl copies of certain albums that are only available on vinyl sound vastly superior to the silence I'd be hearing if I tried to listen to the same music via digital download.

If you prefer silence to music, hey, enjoy. It's the format that's important, after all.
 
Tony L said:
The thing Michael Fremer nails in his response is that all the bleating, whinging and whining is coming from those trying to convince either us, or more likely themselves, that there is no place for vinyl and other physical media. Meanwhile I can be found quietly enjoying a wonderful record collection that is increasing in value almost by the day and playing it on some beautiful replay kit that is doing exactly the same. I don't need to convince anyone of anything as I am perfectly confident and secure in my choices. Live and let live!
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Excellent post. Quite a significant point that in many cases a vinyl collection remains an appreciating asset (content dependent of course), yet a collection of digital files has zero resale value. This naturally doesn't matter to some people, but it is worth considering nevertheless.

Many times recently I've found a 12 on Discogs which I bought for £8 selling from £30 upwards within just a few months.
 
Although I am now buying vinyl again I remain sceptical about whether vinyl will appreciate in value in the way people seem to assume.

As we saw, recently, a painting went for a lot of money but we will all continue to have eyes to look at such paintings or even rolex watches.

Who is going to buy all this "valuable" vinyl in 30 years time?
 
dave thomas said:
If you set up your arm correctly you don't get any noticeable end of side distortion. Vinyl has a greater resolution than CD, there is more information available for the system to retrieve, hence greater fidelity to the original. By the same token that mp3 is inferior to CD so CD is to vinyl, agreed to a lesser extent.

However I listen to CD more since getting a better player and yes there is a lot more music available on CD. I have streamed from my lap top but do not achieve the same quality as when playing the CD.

I do have some lps and CDs of the same music, the vinyl sounds better in every instance. Having said that, CD play back I can be extremely good and very close to the vinyl. As a generalisation, I find rock and mainstream music closest on CD to vinyl. 50s, 60s and 70s jazz and classical produce the greatest difference on vinyl.

Another issue is the quality of the recording/mastering. There are crap sounding CDs and LPs.
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You say? How do you figure that out?

Try listening to the Darkside of the Moon final fade on your vinyl system. Then do the same with a CD. On the CD you will hear strains of "Ticket to Ride". It gets totally lost in the background noise on thr vinyl version.

So, just because of it's vastly superior S/N capability, CD is capable of superior resolution.

Chris
 
Telling someone to listen to the Dark Side of the Moon is bad advice, regardless of format.

Anyway, this thread is stupid. Records are great, CDs are great, downloads are great.
 
Greg said:
Greg, in 30 years there will be no digital. It will just be vinyl; vinyl everywhere :)
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Greg, you may be right.

What is facinating about vinyl is that it is an example of people saying what they want rather than be dictated to by the measurement guys as to what is the more accurate medium.

I remember people making a similar objection to "beer" which resulted in a return to traditional beer.

Mescalito said:
Try listening to the Darkside of the Moon final fade on your vinyl system. Then do the same with a CD. On the CD you will hear strains of "Ticket to Ride". It gets totally lost in the background noise on thr vinyl version.
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Chris, I don't remember hearing it when I saw them play live, years ago, maybe I should write to them and complain.
 
Asked...

BlueEyes said:
Although I am now buying vinyl again I remain sceptical about whether vinyl will appreciate in value in the way people seem to assume.

As we saw, recently, a painting went for a lot of money but we will all continue to have eyes to look at such paintings or even rolex watches.

Who is going to buy all this "valuable" vinyl in 30 years time?
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Answered....

BlueEyes said:
I go into Fopp, on Brown Street, Manchester, which is full of kids and every time I go in there is even more vinyl of all types of music and if they haven't got it you can order it. They fly it over from the States.

The albums can cost up to £20 but most cost less.

In queuing on Record day, the queue was aged from 16 to 66.
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It's always going to remain a niche / collector market, but if anything it's actually increasing at present.
 
Tony, I think Greg was responding tongue in cheek!?

My simple point is who is going to have a tt in 30 years?

Who of us has a wind-up gramophone?

I know someone will post to say the technology exists but if I could get a box with buttons that provides the joi-de-vivre of my cheapo 301 I would buy one.

With the advent of technology, I assume when I am in the care home and incapable of doing much more than press a button I will be plugged into it.
 
Mescalito said:
Because vinyl is inferior, that's why. Because despite the "resurgence", most new stuff isn't released on vinyl anymore. Because it is by far and away the most user-unfriendly and fragile medium. Because of the surface noise. Because of the clicks & pops. Because of tracking & end-of-side distortion.

What's not to like?

Chris
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I think you're slightly missing my point, which was (once again) that if "The Music" is the be-all and end-all (as we're confidently assured by all the insiders here who really get it) why do these same people get so steamed up if other people are listening to "The Music" in a format that does not happen to meet with their approval?

On the subject of user-friendliness, i remain unconvinced that the hassle of having to digitize all my record collection, set up networks and NAS and getting all the bits to talk to each other properly in the right protocol etc. is simpler than pulling out a CD or LP, slapping it on the deck and listening to the music while reading the liner notes and possibly improving my nasty little mind a bit. But to each his own.
 
BlueEyes said:
Greg, you may be right.

What is facinating about vinyl is that it is an example of people saying what they want rather than be dictated to by the measurement guys as to what is the more accurate medium.

I remember people making a similar objection to "beer" which resulted in a return to traditional beer.



Chris, I don't remember hearing it when I saw them play live, years ago, maybe I should write to them and complain.
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Since the album was almost certainly produced before you heard them do it live, yes, you should complain!:)

But you neatly used your jokey reposte to ignore the point I was making. The cheapest CD player can resolve that very faint "Ticket to Ride". The most expensive turntable/arm/cartridge can't. It is just lost in the noise floor.

Chris
 
Yet vinyl seems generally able to meet or exceed redbook CD (probably largely due to poor mastering for CD though).

Ian's right though, all formats are great. The content is the main thing.
 
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