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Mains Cables

AQP likes a good wind-up so he got one. That said, I do believe that demands for proof may be symptomatic of a disproportionate craving for certainty that I have no reason to indulge.
 
I am regularly amused to see these posts addressed to individuals in the public area. A PM would be much more effective and grandstanding would not get to the scale it does in the public arena. The many readers to these threads would have to wade through the posturing and grandstanding posts to find the reasonable views or possibly even advice. I say "would have" because I imagine many of them will be disenchanted with a few members posting multiple times and having a domestic in public and seek advice and views elsewhere. Can't say I blame them either.
 
I am regularly amused to see these posts addressed to individuals in the public area. A PM would be much more effective and grandstanding would not get to the scale it does in the public arena. The many readers to these threads would have to wade through the posturing and grandstanding posts to find the reasonable views or possibly even advice. I say "would have" because I imagine many of them will be disenchanted with a few members posting multiple times and having a domestic in public and seek advice and views elsewhere. Can't say I blame them either.

Timhum

Yes I totally agree and what is even more surprising is that the topic is as dull as ditchwater and is as about as important as if did you have a cheese sandwich or a ham one for lunch on this day 22 years ago.

Some of this lot would fight over a sheet of toilet paper.

Still it makes good entertainment seeing obsessives squabble over nowt..

Regards

Mick
 
AQP likes a good wind-up so he got one. That said, I do believe that demands for proof may be symptomatic of a disproportionate craving for certainty that I have no reason to indulge.

Care to explain that? Oh and for the onlookers, I am sure both steve and myself are quite capable of looking after ourselves, but thanks for the thought.

If I came up with a product and sold it to market on the proviso that it would make a difference despite all known physics, would I be wrong to expect others to question my claims? No. So If anyone wants to come on here and claim they can hear a difference I think it only fair to suggest they can show how. As for this craving rubbish, I am quite sure steve is attempting to employ the same kind of basic psychology he used as a teacher on the kids in the playground, unfortunatly I can see through it. This hobby has been over-run with silly magical nonsense by all and sundry from manufacturers taking advantage of the gullible public to the many on here and elsewhere willing to suspend all critical thinking in order that they can say they can hear things others can't or that their hifi is 'better' than someone elses becasue it can resolve these as yet completely unproven and elusive differences. I am truly ashamed to use the title audiophile, and instead I simply say I have an interest in music and the electronics used to reproduce it which sounds a little more down to earth. I genuinly believe that it is this hilarious suspension of science and adoption of hocus pocus that is partly responsible for the decline of the industry (that and it's inability to adapt).
 
I always use mains cables that meet the standards of the country I happen to be in. They all seem to perform their function well.

Dino and Sue, nice to see you already on the offensive against people whose opinion is different from yours. Can't you let your provocative postings rest? These are only peripheral bits of hifi, which in itself isn't important in the overall scheme of things.

I'm actually in the non believer camp, I just thought it would be nice for a change to just let them get on with it
 
Oh fine! Raise our expectations about couscoussier technique and then just leave us all hanging.
 
Somebody earlier on in this thread raised the analogy of religion - vs - rationality. It works, up to a point, and there are certainly parallels between the objectivists and Richard Dawkins' (occasionally strident and disrespectful) dismissal of religion's adherents.

The difference, I might suggest, which makes the analogy less valid (I won't say invalid) is that very few religionists claim to have a personal testimony or experience of the Divine, whereas most subjectivists in hifi have at least experienced something which leads them to the conclusions they have adopted.

So I think it is invidious to suggest that a subjective approach to hifi is based on 'faith' because, fundamentally, faith requires belief without evidence, and there is evidence (albeit subjective and empirical) for the differences in amplifiers, cables and mains leads.
 
Care to explain that? Oh and for the onlookers, I am sure both steve and myself are quite capable of looking after ourselves, but thanks for the thought.

[Soap box]If I came up with a product and sold it to market on the proviso....[/Soap box]

I hope that was suitably cathartic. You forget that I haven't come up with any product to sell.
 
AQP reminds me of Jehovas Witnesses. It is their duty to knock doors wearing cheap suits and hand out lectures to save us from ourselves.
 
I genuinely believe that it is this hilarious suspension of science and adoption of hocus pocus that is partly responsible for the decline of the industry

How?

By the way, your repetitive and petty insulting of Steven is hardly going to draw admiration so you're not exactly white here.
 
Pinklingsssss! I grow weary of the battle. Wait for me. I shall be mercccccciful, and quick!

Gorn.jpg



Joe / Gorning
 
I do think it is perfectly reasonable for anybody who does not believe cables etc can make a difference, to post on these threads. I can also appreciate that, for some, it is out of a genuine desire to prevent a newcomer from being 'taken in'. So far, so reasonable.

So, why can't we just make our respective points without it becoming personal?

FWIW, it looks to me as though it is more commonly the objectivists who cast the first stone, but that's just a subjective view, of course. ;)
 
Somebody earlier on in this thread raised the analogy of religion - vs - rationality. It works, up to a point, and there are certainly parallels between the objectivists and Richard Dawkins' (occasionally strident and disrespectful) dismissal of religion's adherents.

The difference, I might suggest, which makes the analogy less valid (I won't say invalid) is that very few religionists claim to have a personal testimony or experience of the Divine, whereas most subjectivists in hifi have at least experienced something which leads them to the conclusions they have adopted.

So I think it is invidious to suggest that a subjective approach to hifi is based on 'faith' because, fundamentally, faith requires belief without evidence, and there is evidence (albeit subjective and empirical) for the differences in amplifiers, cables and mains leads.

Reading a few of these threads ( and there have been many many of them ) my reading of the Objectivists POV is the the Subjectivists claim that they can hear the difference when they have bought a more expensive (it always is ) cable and added it to their system. The Objectivists want to know (as I see it ) if the Subjectivists could tell whether the cable had,or had not,been substituted if they,the Subjectivists ,had been blindfolded and the cable was,or was not ,changed around by an impartial third party.

So the evidence that you think is being invidiously called for is hardly invidious. Can the Objectivists 'tell' in a simple blind test when a cable is being swapped in or out of their system? In a blind test?

They all claim they can when they themselves change the cables around.

All the Objectivists seem to ask is 'would you show me that you can tell with a simple test'

I would really like the answer to that question because I could start on a whole new upgrade path if it were to be the case.
 
i use ebay 2.5 shielded cable and its fine , custom cable supplies it. just use decent connectors like furutech
i can`t afford fancy cables currently especially as one needs to be 6 m long
 
Reading a few of these threads ( and there have been many many of them ) my reading of the Objectivists POV is the the Subjectivists claim that they can hear the difference when they have bought a more expensive (it always is ) cable and added it to their system. The Objectivists want to know (as I see it ) if the Subjectivists could tell whether the cable had,or had not,been substituted if they,the Subjectivists ,had been blindfolded and the cable was,or was not ,changed around by an impartial third party.

So the evidence that you think is being invidiously called for is hardly invidious. Can the Objectivists 'tell' in a simple blind test when a cable is being swapped in or out of their system? In a blind test?

They all claim they can when they themselves change the cables around.

All the Objectivists seem to ask is 'would you show me that you can tell with a simple test'

I would really like the answer to that question because I could start on a whole new upgrade path if it were to be the case.

It will never happen Joe. Just when it seems there is going to be a definitive test, someone backs out and claims are made that the test subjects will not be able to tell the difference when subjected to 'stress' or some such nonsense. Then you have the holier than thou sort who will refuse to undergo a test or to try and provide evidence because they think they have no need to. Then there is the argument put across about the burden of proof, ie. it is not my place to prove the existence of unicorns, but yours to disprove it... ad nauseum. Then there are the armchair psychologists who think those who seek the truth like the rest of the scientific community must be somehow afflicted, since they claim they can hear a difference and therefore have no need to prove it to anyone. From my own personal view, I would like to see a ban on all sales of these silly cables, mains or otherwise (though especially mains if they are not properly tested for safety) until the makers can provide proof there is an effect, and I mean any effect. Of course this will never happen, and the gullible will continue to spend their money and the makers will continue to coin it in. As they say, a fool and his money are easily parted.
 
You see, this kind of makes my point. Aquapiranha makes some perfectly valid and reasonable points, then goes and soils his own backyard by some fatuous reference to unicorns, and a parting shot about 'the gullible' and 'fools and their money', clearly intended to assert that those who disagree with his position are gullible fools.

And thus, the possibility of a reasoned debate is immediately scuppered. Ironic, since the objectivists' view is, essentially, put forward as the voice of reason.
 
Somebody earlier on in this thread raised the analogy of religion - vs - rationality. It works, up to a point, and there are certainly parallels between the objectivists and Richard Dawkins' (occasionally strident and disrespectful) dismissal of religion's adherents.

The difference, I might suggest, which makes the analogy less valid (I won't say invalid) is that very few religionists claim to have a personal testimony or experience of the Divine, whereas most subjectivists in hifi have at least experienced something which leads them to the conclusions they have adopted.

So I think it is invidious to suggest that a subjective approach to hifi is based on 'faith' because, fundamentally, faith requires belief without evidence, and there is evidence (albeit subjective and empirical) for the differences in amplifiers, cables and mains leads.
Not quite, it is accurate. You forget the miracles, many of which are the bases of faith, certainly in the christian church. Would a subjectivist deny the miracles of Lourdes, for example? A doctor might want to put on a different explanation.

MVV apologies, will attempt to post on the technique next week.
 
The thing is...
Those who think mains cables make a difference know this to be true. They can hear it (whether this perceived difference in sound is imagination or not who cares?).
Those who think mains cables can't make a difference know this to be true. They know the science behind it all (whether science explains everything or not who cares?).
So both camps are happy in what they know. So why bother arguing? Neither side will "win".
 
A ban.

Crikes. So we now have militant objectivism.

If it is safe to use and has a CE mark it won't be banned so you can scweam and scweam until you are thick.

My previous mains cables were 200 quid so that's another scarecrow on fire.
 


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