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Challenge From Harbeth - Free M40.1 For Those Who Can Identify Amplifier Differences

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Can someone what is cleverer than me explain in a couple of sentences how NO ONE is saying all amplifiers sound the same. This will help people understand that no one is saying this.

i'll let rob answer mate....ROBERT!!!
Why? I'm already fed up of reading mostly boring shite. :D

Again before I head off for a shave and bed...

I said to Rob:
"Previous posts of yours (or was it Serge?) indicate you think all competently designed amplifiers made in the last 'x' years sound the same."

In reply, Rob said,
"That is my position"

Q. What can be clearer than that, or are you placing your very own interpretation on it, which is perhaps that Rob meant to say :
"That is not my position"
 
Guy,

What they are saying is that all amplifiers that sound the same sound the same. Amplifiers that sound different don't sound the same.
Excellent. Them thar 40.1s iz almost mine!

Joe
 
Neither of us have ever claimed that all amplifiers sound the same.
I regard many (though certainly not all) valve amplifiers as incompetent where the sole qualifier is transparency. Doesn't mean they can't reproduce thoroughly enjoyable music. I use and enjoy valve amplification myself sometimes but I'm not blind to the limitations.



Neither have I.
Christ knows what these folk have been reading!

brian perhaps if you read this part of robert's post!!!
 
what are you saying then brian?
:D:D

I'm not saying some reckon all amplifiers sound the same, it looks like you're misrepresenting me by suggesting I am saying that.

Here is the exchange again. What have I missed, darryl?

I said to Rob:
"Previous posts of yours (or was it Serge?) indicate you think all competently designed amplifiers made in the last 'x' years sound the same."

In reply, Rob said,
"That is my position"

I think you're a funny guy darryl but I'm not in the mood so I'm off for my shave and then kip.

Gnight mate.
 
brian perhaps if you read this part of robert's post!!!
Just saw your post before going.

I read that part of Rob's post as well, darryl. It says he doesn't think all amplifiers sound the same, therefore I haven't suggested he said all amplifiers sound the same, just that he confirmed his belief that all competently designed amplifiers sound the same. (with the caveat of when they were made of course)

Now read the posts properly and goodnight.
 
Everything is an elephant other than those things which are not.
This is the crux. 'Subjectivists' appear to believe that all elephants are not equal. Why they want to demonstrate this by offering to tell the difference between a tiger and an elephant is the real mystery.

There must be a joke somewhere here about shoes dropping.

Paul
 
Ok ta. So all amplifiers don't sound the same. However all those that measure the same do. Is that it? Sounds likely to me.
I'm just a punter,I know nowt but find much to learn in all this.(mostly about myself)
 
Still, who really cares eh? Just a few silly "gear infatuated" audiophiles indulging in "a giant orgy of wang measuring , sheldrake mysticism, voodoo, and distance reiki coupled with new age philosophical rambling" maybe.

But what do they matter? ;)

Of course it has meters.. :rolleyes: I gave those tracks to the archivist for MeCO at the time, who did a bit of volume leveling/normalizing before uploading... Although at the time, I was recording with 16 bit gear and had to keep the peaks relatively high.... and heres a story. recording live to two track on the fly is damned difficult. you have one chance to get it right. considering that, and the setup time I had(around 30 minutes) I am pleased with the results. i listen to this recording all the time. loudness doesnt bother me)

oh yeah.. it was a matrix recording(two ambient mics with a soundboard patch) the levels I got (from the patch) were given to me by the live sound engineer. it was from an aux I believe? and fixed.. anyway the levels were hot, nothing I could do about it!!
 
Ok ta. So all amplifiers don't sound the same. However all those that measure the same do. Is that it? Sounds likely to me.

That's it.

There have to be some boundaries set around 'same' - since we clearly aren't talking 'exactly' the same. Designer Doug Self has done much work in this area and coined the term 'blameless' for competent audio electronics. This is effectively a conservative minimum spec in a few key area so that any amp sitting in the target area will be audibly transparent. Going back further, Peter Walker and Peter Baxandall also wrote plenty on defining amplifier performance, as did Martin Colloms back in the day before he converted.
We have some of this stuff archived for download but I don't like posting links which smacks of taking liberties. But if you look down a little and click ;)

Worth buying the books Self on Audio and Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook.
You might even find the relevant bits online.
The latter is also good for DIY amplifier builds.
 
Rob,

Forgetting about valve amps for the moment — which are way cool, especially if they look like a stingray — what modern solid-state amps do you think aren't transparent?

Joe
 
Is this what's trying to being said?:

All amplifiers that exhibit distortion below .1% and operated within their design parameters will be indistinguishable from any another amplifier meeting the same criteria in a blind test.
 
I'd argue those are far from the norm. If I pick ten albums at random from my library, all produced over the past decade I'll be lucky to find one that looks anything like that. Sure, there are some dreadful examples around but they aren't the norm IME.

Maybe it's your library that is far from the norm then. I think the waveform picture I linked to is maybe a touch more dynamic than the norm, you can still see some white space that isn't filled with noise...
 
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